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Middle East Revolutions

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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by mrgolf on Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:12 pm

Robert Gates suggested that the zone could only be established if there was an initial military attack on the country first.

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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by Phillymg on Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:16 pm

There's a theory that the reason India (today India/Pakistan/Bangladesh) was able to break free from the British occupation thru Gandhi's non-violent methods was that the British were rather civilized & cared what the world thought of them. There were incidents of violence & many deaths.....but in the end the British caved. Hitler & Stalin had no such concerns. The Nazis & the Soviets simply mowed down opponents with heavy firepower.

Unlike the Tunisian dictator who ran away & the Egyptian dictator who stepped down.....Gadhafi & his sons have brought out the big guns so to speak. Thanx to God that they don't have a nuclear weapon. They'd take it all with them if they could.

It's amazing to see ordinary Libyans like doctors & tailors & college students manning anti-aircraft guns against Gadhafi's bombers.

Friggin Rumsfeld is on the 'Piers Morgan' show tonite defending Gadhafi & saying 'who knows what's going to happen if Gadhafi is thrown out'?? He adds 'Iraq is a better place today with Saddam Hussein gone' but then goes back to supporting Gadhafi.

I'm starting to think all these old powerful guys are in the same club.....totally clueless that the future is catching up with them & that human history will reveal them to have been monsters.

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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by Jen on Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:46 pm

I'm starting to think all these old powerful guys are in the same club
They're in the same club for sure.
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by elvis44102 on Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:00 am

by Phillymg Today at 9:16

""There's a theory that the reason India (today India/Pakistan/Bangladesh) was able to break free from the British occupation thru Gandhi's non-violent methods was that the British were rather civilized & cared what the world thought of them. There were incidents of violence & many deaths.....but in the end the British caved. Hitler & Stalin had no such concerns. The Nazis & the Soviets simply mowed down opponents with heavy firepower.""

Durring Churchills talks with Roosevelt durring the second world war, Churchill confessed that the Supemacy of what was then "The British Empire" was over.
Although Mr.Churchill was well aware that to admit so openly was political suicide, he could admit in private conversation with another world leader (and Ally) that the empire was bankrupt.

England could no longer afford to keep its colonies, they did not abandon them out generosity..


I am afraid with the cost of our foreign adventures that we ALREADY maybe past the point of no return..China is the comming world leader, by virtue of size alone....

There is only one rationization for the wars we fight, that is control and pricing Oil in dollars....People in power do not willingly give it up..

In the last one hundred years the human population has increased fro 1 billion to 6 billion, all by virtue of dare I say CHEAP seemingly unexhaustable energy in the for of OIL...

I believe Science will solve the looming energy crunch....but I don't know exactly how,or when....

EDIT


I try to be a realist above all, Big money has owned the Oil industry ever since its inception.

World War 2 was fought over control of Oil fields, whether they be in Indonesia (Japan),

Or Romania, or the middleast. (Germany)…Oil will always be Policed by a huge military machine.

The thing I question is this..are the 30-50 billion in profits made by a few politically connected Johnny-come-latelies (Rumsfeld, scooter libby, and the whole neo-con crowd) at the expense of trillions to the rest of us offset by the value of having a currency based in dollars for the trade of Oil worth all this extra cost???

As for wondering IF the US will get involved with Libya? What planet have you been on lately???

There is OIL there we have had an involvement since its discovery there…Oh!!! You mean are WE OFFICIALLY there as opposed to just pulling strings behind the curtain…Does it matter if its COVERT or out in the open???

I will now return control of the thread to those who wish to report on our OFFICIAL involvement…
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by mrgolf on Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:41 am

Heard on the news today that a "no fly zone" may not help the rebels in Libya that much
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by Phillymg on Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:08 am

elvis44102 wrote:I am afraid with the cost of our foreign adventures that we ALREADY maybe past the point of no return..China is the comming world leader, by virtue of size alone....
China & India (& others like Brazil, Singapore, S Korea) are already on top of the world economy due to outsourcing. If the US doesn't invest in its PUBLIC EDUCATION big time we are lost. But politicians like Wisconsin's Gov. Walker have been paid off by China & India.....to run our public education system into the ground. Gov. Walker should move to China where the Chinese will host banquets in his honor for running down American public education. In China & India they're hanging up THANK YOU posters with Gov. Walker's face--then they're laughing behind his back.

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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by Kat on Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:32 am

I guess U.S. manufacturing isn't completely dead...we seem to still be exporting an awful lot of this stuff to foreign governments...mideast dictators included:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_arms_sales

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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by Phillymg on Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:38 pm

UN votes 10-0 (5 absentions) to enforce No-Fly zone against Libyan dictator Gadhafi. China & Russia abstain.

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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by JaneWI on Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:47 pm

Phillymg wrote:UN votes 10-0 (5 absentions) to enforce No-Fly zone against Libyan dictator Gadhafi. China & Russia abstain.

Thank you for the update. It looks like it could get messy.

UN OKs Libya airstrikes, no-fly zone

"The resolution establishes “a ban on all flights in the airspace of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya" while excluding an occupation force. It also calls for freezing the assets of the Libyan National Oil Corp. and the central bank because of links to Gadhafi."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42124388/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by Phillymg on Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:01 pm

This could be the start of WWIII. Shocked

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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by Jen on Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:17 pm

Phillymg wrote:This could be the start of WWIII. Shocked
This worries me too. Crying or Very sad
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by KeeptheFaith on Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:39 pm

Jen wrote:
Phillymg wrote:This could be the start of WWIII. Shocked
This worries me too. Crying or Very sad

X3
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by mrgolf on Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:14 pm

Surprised that a no fly zone was passed. Maybe too late
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by Phillymg on Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:22 pm

Does anyone know if the 4 NYTimes reporters have been released yet??

http://www.salon.com/news/libya/index.html?story=/news/feature/2011/03/18/times_journalists_found_libya_released

Maybe the kidnapping of the reporters Tuesday was the tipping point that pushed the UN to support the no-fly resolution??

I fear they're being held blindfolded in separate cells & I really worry for the treatment of the woman. Gadhafi knows no bounds.


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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by mrgolf on Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:33 pm

NEW YORK — Forces loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi have said they will release four New York Times journalists who were captured during fighting in the eastern part of the country, the newspaper said Friday.
The four planned to drive to the Egyptian border and fly out of Egypt, said Buddy Shadid, the father of Times reporter Anthony Shadid.
"They were wanting to keep it quiet yesterday because of the delicate negotiations," Buddy Shadid told The Associated Press. "Apparently the United Nations and Turkey and some other nations all put pressure on the Libyan government to release them."
Buddy Shadid said he had spoken to his daughter-in-law, Nada Bakri, who said the four journalists were treated well and had plenty of food and water.
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by Phillymg on Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:41 pm

Thanx Golf. The 4 will for sure have some interesting things to say.

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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by kman on Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:49 pm

Well, U.S. have fired missles on Libya - watching CNN beaking news. Other nations are taking part - France, UK etc.

Just airstrikes - no ground troops.


Last edited by kman on Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add'l info)
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by JaneWI on Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:55 pm

kman wrote:Well, U.S. have fired missles on Libya - watching CNN beaking news. Other nations are taking part - France, UK etc.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this conflict? How far reaching will this end up being?
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by JaneWI on Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:43 pm

Libyan government releases four New York Times journalists

"The Libyan government has released four New York Times journalists six days after they were captured and detained."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/mar/21/libya-releases-new-york-times-journalists?CMP=twt_gu
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by mrgolf on Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:51 pm

JaneWI wrote:
kman wrote:Well, U.S. have fired missles on Libya - watching CNN beaking news. Other nations are taking part - France, UK etc.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this conflict? How far reaching will this end up being?
That is the 64 million dollar question. I don't think we will get ground troops involved. If troops go in they should be from the Arab League
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by mrgolf on Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:54 pm

What happens if Gaddifi goes? What happens then?
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by elvis44102 on Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:46 pm

While not specific to libya this video BLOWBACK syndrome is a good start on getting a handle on us foriegn policy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5SoE9vBc6I
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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by Phillymg on Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:40 pm

mrgolf wrote:What happens if Gaddifi goes? What happens then?
I found this info when I read that Prez Sarkozy of France made an agreement in 2007 to give Libya a couple of nuclear power plants. I never knew about what the Bulgarian nurses & the Palestinian doctor went thru in Libya for 8 years (made scapegoats after poor hygene at Benghazi Hospital led to over 400 HIV infections there).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_trial_in_Libya

The tortured & wrongly convicted Palestinian doctor (Ashraf Ahmed El-Hajouj) said in 2009 he would 'remain until the last moment of my life, as a stone in their throats.'
Meaning in the throats of the Gadhafi regime that so horribly abused & mistreated him & the other medical workers.

Seems like the nuclear power plants were part of a trade to get the medical workers released in 2007. At the time Sarkozy said it could take 10-15 years to complete the nuclear deal....but that was 4 years ago & the clock was ticking for Sarkozy to make good on the contract he signed.

On your question Golf--after reading about what happened to the medical workers I can hardly think that Libya could wind up with a *worse* government than Gadhafi's.

Isn't it ironic that both the West & Al Qaeda are *both* calling for Gadhafi to leave??

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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by Phillymg on Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:19 pm

elvis44102 wrote:While not specific to libya this video BLOWBACK syndrome is a good start on getting a handle on us foriegn policy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5SoE9vBc6I

Thanx Elvis. Having problems hearing the video.....but will read up on the late Chalmers Johnson, his 'The Lessons of Blowback,' & his theory of unintended consequences.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/11/21-3

Wonder what he would say about the current situation with Libya.....

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Re: Middle East Revolutions

Post by Phillymg on Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:07 pm

Top Yemeni generals back democracy protesters in Yemen.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/21/us-yemen-idUSTRE72K1RJ20110321

Officers defect & ambassadors resign--supporting the protesters.

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Re: Middle East Revolutions

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