Less than 50% say Obama should be re-elected.

Tara wrote:

knarf wrote:

nuttin2lose wrote:They may have made comments bout me, but yours are bout others ??

Nutty, I love ya, but send your whatever through a PM please! No one needs to see or read this.

Why is this all of a sudden bothering people today? He's been attacking me for awhile now. Ever since I brought up Need2beworking. Why do all of you protect her anyway? If you got all the crazy things she's said and done out in the open, you'd be free of her. I get that some of you were pretty close to her and part of the clique, but this just keeps going on and on.

Tara, don't know where, Need2beworking fits in to all of this, but all I was trying to do was get this thread back on track. I was enjoying it immensely, and would like to see it continue, is all. Sorry if you thought I was in any way, being prejudice towards anyone.

With all due respect, knarf, I already explained where she fits in. I enjoy debating immensely, which is why I contribute often, unlike you. But, what I don't like is being personally attacked by a bunch of men on a BB, of which nuttin2lose is the most bold offender. Its not fair to me, it doesn't help the conversation, in fact, it derails it if you failed to notice that.

Thought I made myself clear with my post to him. I understand you don't care much for me, and that's okay. I was and are, on your side in this.

Tara, I apologize for not getting on this thread any quicker than I have. There is no reason for you or anyone else on this discussion board to be attacked. I will do my best to be better at this in the future.

However, if we cannot get back on topic in this thread I will be forced to lock it to prevent further arguments.

Thanks for the apology, its unnecessary, but thanks anyway. I'll be happy to get back on topic as there's nothing I like better than talking about politics, but I don't think it does anybody here any favors to cut off conversation without getting to the root of the problem. What's the point of continuing to dance around it? But, since others don't have the courage to speak up, its probably just as well for now.

Tara, I agree with you that we shouldn't need to cut off the discussion. I draw the line when people start to feel threatened and when the discussion serves to do nothing except get people riled up.

I did try to bring the discussion back to the original topic and wasn't successful with that. If we can all agree to go back to the original topic I'll be more than happy to let this thread continue.

The root of the problem is not a left or right issue. The plain and simple fact is money. When or if we can remove that little ditty from politics, we will be on the road to recovery. OR! we have to start from scratch on the local level, which could take many years. Question is; which way is the quickest?

knarf wrote:The root of the problem is not a left or right issue. The plain and simple fact is money. When or if we can remove that little ditty from politics, we will be on the road to recovery. OR! we have to start from scratch on the local level, which could take many years. Question is; which way is the quickest?

Quickest way is clearly removing the money from politics, and the most logical way is to reduce the amount of money candidates can receive in donations. Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, the people responsible for making the laws that can change the contribution laws are the ones who benefit most from them not changing.

RanBrow123 wrote:

knarf wrote:The root of the problem is not a left or right issue. The plain and simple fact is money. When or if we can remove that little ditty from politics, we will be on the road to recovery. OR! we have to start from scratch on the local level, which could take many years. Question is; which way is the quickest?

Quickest way is clearly removing the money from politics, and the most logical way is to reduce the amount of money candidates can receive in donations. Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, the people responsible for making the laws that can change the contribution laws are the ones who benefit most from them not changing.

That's the catch 22, so the quickest could be cleaning house at the local level. When the hot shots in Congress see we are serious, starting from the bottom up, it just might make them think a little bit. But Hey, like always, just thinkin out loud here.

Anybody on this board try to get elected to the school board?
I did, and will try again next time around. Made the mistake of jumping in too late the last time, but will have all my ducks in a row the next.

RanBrow123 wrote:

knarf wrote:The root of the problem is not a left or right issue. The plain and simple fact is money. When or if we can remove that little ditty from politics, we will be on the road to recovery. OR! we have to start from scratch on the local level, which could take many years. Question is; which way is the quickest?

Quickest way is clearly removing the money from politics, and the most logical way is to reduce the amount of money candidates can receive in donations. Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, the people responsible for making the laws that can change the contribution laws are the ones who benefit most from them not changing.

There's truth to that. Look at how the Koch brothers bought and preempted the Tea Party. But, since you can't change that, perhaps the best way is to do what the Democrats are doing, starting their own fundraising group.
It levels the playing field.

knarf,

I agree with you that campaign finance reform is sorely needed, and that it shouldn't be a left-right issue. The SCOTUS (particularly its conservative members IMHO), however, seems to stand in the way of any meaningful reform.

As to the road to recovery, I think there are definitely stark differences between left* and right* (and hence Democrats* and Republicans*) as to which road we should follow. Both signs say, "This way to recovery".

*I'll even stick my neck way, way out and humbly submit that in my admittedly imperfect view, the choice of late has boiled down to a slightly right of center party and a party of the extreme right. The historic left is a shadow of its former self. The pendulum does have a way of swinging however.

truth wrote:knarf,

I agree with you that campaign finance reform is sorely needed, and that it shouldn't be a left-right issue. The SCOTUS (particularly its conservative members IMHO), however, seems to stand in the way of any meaningful reform.

As to the road to recovery, I think there are definitely stark differences between left* and right* (and hence Democrats* and Republicans*) as to which road we should follow. Both signs say, "This way to recovery".

*I'll even stick my neck way, way out and humbly submit that in my admittedly imperfect view, the choice of late has boiled down to a slightly right of center party and a party of the extreme right. The historic left is a shadow of its former self. The pendulum does have a way of swinging however.

I'm gonna have to agree with your assessment here, truth, only because of the Senate Majority leader. Sorry but IMO, Harry needed to lose his re-election. We could have had Durbin, or Schummer to push things along at a center to center left pace. Not removing the filibuster rule speaks volumes against our illustrious Dem majority leader.

knarf wrote:

truth wrote:knarf,

I agree with you that campaign finance reform is sorely needed, and that it shouldn't be a left-right issue. The SCOTUS (particularly its conservative members IMHO), however, seems to stand in the way of any meaningful reform.

As to the road to recovery, I think there are definitely stark differences between left* and right* (and hence Democrats* and Republicans*) as to which road we should follow. Both signs say, "This way to recovery".

*I'll even stick my neck way, way out and humbly submit that in my admittedly imperfect view, the choice of late has boiled down to a slightly right of center party and a party of the extreme right. The historic left is a shadow of its former self. The pendulum does have a way of swinging however.

I'm gonna have to agree with your assessment here, truth, only because of the Senate Majority leader. Sorry but IMO, Harry needed to lose his re-election. We could have had Durbin, or Schummer to push things along at a center to center left pace. Not removing the filibuster rule speaks volumes against our illustrious Dem majority leader.

Thanks, knarf.

Also, where are the moderate Republicans? In know that they exist in the party generally, but they too seem to have lost any voice. Even Orrin Hatch is fighting for his life.

You know what's interesting though about the "both parties are the same" meme- there's almost no issue that current incarnation of the Republican Party and the Democrats are the same on. Right now, they are at polar opposites.

The Right Wing thrives on negativity. I don't think the reason the Right Wing wins elections is because of money at all. Its because there level of committment is greater. The right's main strategy is to drive down voter turnout.

So the concept of both parties are the same suggests there's no point in voting at all. Without a strong positive message to counteract all the negative, Democratic voters won't get out to vote. So, its not only a ridiculous concept, but its dangerous.

It's also a complete lie. Can you look at Nancy Pelosi and John Boehner and tell me they're the same? How about President Obama and George W. Bush?

So, we have to stay positive and hopeful to build the kind of just country we want - where everyone is equal. And make no mistakes, we need to get rid of the far right. The idea of years of listening to these far right cranks is more than I can stand.

Tara said: "The idea of years of listening to these far right cranks is more than I can stand."

IF YOU ARE TRULY SINCERE ABOUT THIS STATEMENT, DO YOURSELF A FAVOR (AND OTHERS TOO) AND MOVE OUT OF THE COUNTRY! YOU LIVE IN ARIZONA DON'T YOU? HEAD SOUTH!

hogwort wrote:Tara said: "The idea of years of listening to these far right cranks is more than I can stand."

IF YOU ARE TRULY SINCERE ABOUT THIS STATEMENT, DO YOURSELF A FAVOR (AND OTHERS TOO) AND MOVE OUT OF THE COUNTRY! YOU LIVE IN ARIZONA DON'T YOU? HEAD SOUTH!

Okay, I've had enough of the personal attacks in this thread. Last warning, they're to stop now or this thread is going to be not only locked, but deleted. Hogwort, I find it a little distasteful for you to have what? 4 posts under your belt and one of them is a personal attack on another member? Cool it and I mean it.

knarf,

While I certainly would not have wanted Sharron Engle to be the new Senator from NV, I would have been happy to see Reid replaced by any number of other Democratic Senators as Majority Leader based on their much stronger advocacy for us unemployed during the extension battles, not to mention other issues I consider important. I cheered out loud over and over again when Durbin took the floor during those debates. In terms of fighting spirit and charisma, Reid is no Durbin.

It seems to me that Sen. McConnell (much as I disagree with him) has been a much more effective leader for his side.

NOBAMA 2012. PERIOD !

Wheew, this thread sure was steamy at times. I doodled this pic,
inspired by the posts... just a little humor here, please just accept it.

Getting back to the issue, Obama has no spine like none of the other Dems in power. Pelosi basically let Bush do what he wanted without speaking up. This is why I have no faith in them.

I think that you have to look to the core principals of both parties.

One party seems to lack core principals. No core principals except for cutting taxes and making sure that they can funnel as much money as they can up to the richest 2%.

I found out recently that Republicans are a minority party - that means there are more Democrats and Independents who lean Democratic than there are Republican voters. For me, given that the Republican Party has been taken over by extremists these days, I vote Democratic.

Check deeply into OBAMA'S ZARS/ advisers , wanna talk about extremists!

I am not happy with many of the people Obama chose, such as Geitner. This guy is the reason many jobs have been outsourced and that tells me Obama doesn't care.

UPCHITCREEK wrote:Check deeply into OBAMA'S ZARS/ advisers , wanna talk about extremists!

Van Jones , Rev. Jeremiah " God**mn America " Wright, Bill Ayers . But he is given a pass by the media as usual.